Another Newbie needs help - 2.3 to 2.5 swap. - FMVperformance.com : The site for all your Ford Mazda and Volvo needs
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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Another Newbie needs help - 2.3 to 2.5 swap.

Hi Folks, I joined to pick your collective intelligence as I have run out of my own.

I have an 04 sedan that ate a rod bearing. I have now completed a 12 Fusion 2.5 swap and am experiencing an issue that I can't figure out. The swap uses the 2.3 intake and sensors (with the requisite adapter plate). I kept the 2.5 rail, injectors and spark plugs. I used the 2.3 coils as one of the 2.5 coils was broken. I added an extra water temp, oil temp and oil pressure gauges.

I got it in and started. It ran like garbage. I figured it was just the ECM relearning stuff but it never cleared. I read many of your threads and got the idea to unplug the MAF sensor. It ran and idled like new. My question is does this point directly to the MAF sensor being bad and if so, how does it go bad sitting on the shop floor? (The 2.3 ran great before eating the bearing.)


Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this.
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Last edited by fireguy132; 12-03-2018 at 08:18 PM. Reason: Clarification
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 06:50 PM
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireguy132 View Post
Hi Folks, I joined to pick your collective intelligence as I have run out of my own.

I have an 04 sedan that ate a rod bearing. I have now completed a 12 Fusion 2.5 swap and am experiencing an issue that I can't figure out. The swap uses the 2.3 intake and sensors (with the requisite adapter plate). I kept the 2.5 rail, injectors and spark plugs. I used the 2.3 coils as one of the 2.5 coils was broken. I added an extra water temp, oil temp and oil pressure gauges.

I got it in and started. It ran like garbage. I figured it was just the ECM relearning stuff but it never cleared. I read many of your threads and got the idea to unplug the MAF sensor. It ran and idled like new. My question is does this point directly to the MAF sensor being bad and if so, how does it go bad sitting on the shop floor? (The 2.3 ran great before eating the bearing.)


Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this.
Did you swap the intake cam from the old engine or the timing cog from the old intake cam to the Fusion? Did chemicals or something get on the MAF when it was on the shop floor? If it runs terrible plugged in and fine when it is unplugged then it sounds like the MAF. The engine should hesitate with the MAF unplugged when accelerating though. Just wondering too if you checked codes or had a CEL when it was running badly that could have pointed to something. Also, I read where some swappers had some self made wiring issues after the swap causing issues.

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-04-2018, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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Great questions!

I used the 2.3 cam intact. I am confident in the timing for two reasons; 1. I used the timing tools to set it, rechecked it after the cam sprocket was torqued down, rechecked it when I put the initial 75 lbs on the crank pulley and again after I did the final 90 degree tightening, and 2. because it runs beautifully without the MAF sensor (no load tests yet, it's still on stands).


I can't say positively about the chemicals but I don't think anything touched it. It was never removed from the air tube until after the air box and tube were reinstalled.


I get codes for the MAF sensor when it's disconnected. They trip the CEL. I initially got codes for the VVT solenoid but eliminated those with a wiring harness fix. (Bad connection to the solenoid.) Now when I run it with the MAF plugged in, I get nothing. As to the wiring harness, it is all Mazda. The only alteration I had to make was for the 2.5 VVT solenoid (different plug).


Thanks for your help on this.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by fireguy132 View Post
Great questions!

I used the 2.3 cam intact. I am confident in the timing for two reasons; 1. I used the timing tools to set it, rechecked it after the cam sprocket was torqued down, rechecked it when I put the initial 75 lbs on the crank pulley and again after I did the final 90 degree tightening, and 2. because it runs beautifully without the MAF sensor (no load tests yet, it's still on stands).


I can't say positively about the chemicals but I don't think anything touched it. It was never removed from the air tube until after the air box and tube were reinstalled.


I get codes for the MAF sensor when it's disconnected. They trip the CEL. I initially got codes for the VVT solenoid but eliminated those with a wiring harness fix. (Bad connection to the solenoid.) Now when I run it with the MAF plugged in, I get nothing. As to the wiring harness, it is all Mazda. The only alteration I had to make was for the 2.5 VVT solenoid (different plug).


Thanks for your help on this.
Sounds like you covered all the bases. Looks like a new MAF is in order. I would stick with OEM. I've had issues with aftermarket ones on other make vehicles on the professional level.

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-22-2018, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
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OK, I've replaced the MAF sensor and got no improvement. Without the sensor plugged in, the timing is fixed at 10 degrees and both O2 sensor voltages are in the range of .98 volts. It idles more or less smoothly at about 900 RPM. With the MAF sensor plugged in, the timing jumps from a couple of degrees retarded to 20 degrees advanced as it tries to keep from stalling, but the O2 sensor voltages are in the .03 range. I have to keep the RPMs to over 1000 to keep from stalling out. For some reason the MAF sensor is causing the ECM to lean out to stalling.


Any ideas?
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-22-2018, 05:48 PM
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I added an extra water temp, oil temp and oil pressure gauges.
.
Are these hooked up stand alone or did you tie into factory wiring? Just wondering because if the swap was done right as stated, it should run close to stock with a little noticeable power increase. Did you verify that all grounds are hooked up properly? It sounds like it is wiring related somehow being that it ran fine with the 2.3 installed.

Also, are the PCV, EGR and other components related to the intake hooked up properly so there is no vacuum leaks? If it isn't wiring related, then unplugging the MAF may just be putting it into open loop causing a richer condition compensating for vacuum leaks.

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-27-2018, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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rickkari, thanks for the help here. To answer your question, the gauges are on their own circuits using power from the fuse box (add a circuits).

I have checked again for vacuum leaks and find none. All connectors are apparently secure. I went back to the OBDII and got some data that confuses me.

At about 1000 rpm, the Short Term Fuel Trim is 0% and the Long Term Fuel Trim is around 20%. At around 1500 rpm, the STFT jumps to 25% and the LTFT stays the same. At 2500 rpm, both trims are the same as at 1500 rpm. Still no codes. (Other data below.) At first, I thought it might be injectors from the 2.5 being clogged so I replaced them with the 2.3 injectors with no change. Any inputs on the fuel trim numbers/suggestions as to where to look next?

Manifold absolute pressure - 6.67 psi

MAF air flow rate - 4.53 g/sec

Throttle position - 16%

Timing Advance - 2 degrees

O2 sensor1 bank 1 - 0.03V

O2 sensor2 bank 1 - 0.03V

calculated engine load value 29.02%

engine coolant temp - 204.8 degrees F
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-27-2018, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by fireguy132 View Post
rickkari, thanks for the help here. To answer your question, the gauges are on their own circuits using power from the fuse box (add a circuits).

I have checked again for vacuum leaks and find none. All connectors are apparently secure. I went back to the OBDII and got some data that confuses me.

At about 1000 rpm, the Short Term Fuel Trim is 0% and the Long Term Fuel Trim is around 20%. At around 1500 rpm, the STFT jumps to 25% and the LTFT stays the same. At 2500 rpm, both trims are the same as at 1500 rpm. Still no codes. (Other data below.) At first, I thought it might be injectors from the 2.5 being clogged so I replaced them with the 2.3 injectors with no change. Any inputs on the fuel trim numbers/suggestions as to where to look next?

Manifold absolute pressure - 6.67 psi

MAF air flow rate - 4.53 g/sec

Throttle position - 16%

Timing Advance - 2 degrees

O2 sensor1 bank 1 - 0.03V

O2 sensor2 bank 1 - 0.03V

calculated engine load value 29.02%

engine coolant temp - 204.8 degrees F
Have you checked fuel pressure? Appears to be running lean based on fuel trims and O2 readings. Is the pcv setup from the 2.3 or 2.5 and could that be an issue?
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