More oil then can be stored and yet prices are rising (now with poll) - FMVperformance.com : The site for all your Ford Mazda and Volvo needs
View Poll Results: Are the oil companies being fair?
Yes 5 29.41%
No 12 70.59%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 66 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
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More oil then can be stored and yet prices are rising (now with poll)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2009052...08599190144600

Greed truely rules our day...

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post #2 of 66 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 01:52 PM
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Re: More oil then can be stored and yet prices are rising

You've had billions and billions of dollars sitting on the sidelines for months. Equities aren't drawing much capital, treasury bubble is slowly bursting, etc.

People gotta put money somewhere. Too bad I still can't see that oil makes any sense given the fundamentals.
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post #3 of 66 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: More oil then can be stored and yet prices are rising

Ive noticed that the economy is almost a total reflection of energy costs, oil went through the roof and the Dow fell through the floor. Set the oil at a set price per gallon or even lower it, give ppl more "fun" money to spend and the economy would turn and ppl would "fear" spending less. I have 4000$ in the bank and i want a nice HD TV, but I'm afraid to buy one cuz though every things good now I got $4000 of "fun" money. Next month oil goes through the roof again and now I could have really used that money. Just an example, not really me.

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post #4 of 66 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 02:05 PM
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Re: More oil then can be stored and yet prices are rising

[quote author=3driverPA link=topic=146431.msg3149859#msg3149859 date=1243616356]
Set the oil at a set price per gallon or even lower it, give ppl more "fun" money to spend and the economy would turn and ppl would fear spending less.
[/quote]

Several points here....

1. Government setting the actual market price of oil has been done with truly disastrous results. The real question you need to ask yourself is if you favor a steady supply of fuel at market prices or a shortage of fuel at subsidized capped prices?

2. Several politicians have recommended that gasoline be taxed so that it's always $4/gallon. Would provide revenue for transportation and general budget items when the cost of production is low and would steady fuel prices.

I will say that if anyone doesn't spend money now because their fuel bill might rise by $100 month later, they either a.) suck at managing money or b.) make at or near minimum wage.

I drive 15k miles a year and the difference between $2 and $4/gallon gas is about $90-110 mo. If that's a "shock" to anyone's finances, they should reevaluate their situation.

In the end, you DO NOT want the government setting the price of oil or gasoline (other than by taxes). Price ceilings on oil/commodities only lead to severe shortages.
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post #5 of 66 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
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Re: More oil then can be stored and yet prices are rising

90% of people don't drive a Mazda3 and i case you haven't noticed theres a hell of a lot of PPL now-a-day living at or close to minimum wage or just flat out of the job. or have OK jobs but huge mortgages and yes an 90 or 100 a month would be lovely in my pocket. And I'm def not suggesting you let the government have anything to do with gas prices there just as greedy as the oil refiners. But lowering gas prices sure as hell wouldnt burry the oil companys. But im glad you dont mind paying a dick load of money for somthing there a HUGE abundance of. Can I have some money?

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post #6 of 66 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 02:13 PM
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Re: More oil then can be stored and yet prices are rising

[quote author=3driverPA link=topic=146431.msg3149885#msg3149885 date=1243616946]
90% of people dont dirve a mazda3 and i case you havent noticed theres a hell of a lot of ppl now-a-day living at or close to minimum wage or just flat out of the job. or have Ok jobs but huge mortguages and yess an 90 or 100 a month would be lovely in my pocket.
[/quote]

So your solution is actually what? Government intervention on the actual price paid for gasoline?

I don't drive a Mazda 3, either. So what? If you drive an SUV, sell it. The market is actually pretty strong for used SUV's right now.

I'm not against some intelligent reform that decreases the influence of speculators in the oil market. I just wish people that think the U.S. government has any control (or could ever have any control) over oil prices would do some research.

Energy prices plummeted after they peaked @ $147/barrel. However, consumer spending and confidence hasn't shown any net positive effect from lower energy prices. Are you trying to argue that gasoline price volatility is what's holding this economy back?

From your edit:

[quote author=3driverPA link=topic=146431.msg3149885#msg3149885 date=1243616946]
But lowering gas prices sure as hell wouldnt burry the oil companys.
[/quote]

Do some research on the profit margins of independent refiners. It's not just upstream companies that are part of the equation.

[quote author=3driverPA link=topic=146431.msg3149885#msg3149885 date=1243616946]
But im glad you dont mind paying a dick load of money for somthing there a HUGE abundance of.
[/quote]

Dickload? Let's see, I can get 25 miles for $2.20. Yep, that's ridiculous.

Sorry, gasoline costs don't have to be a hardship unless you make choices that make it so.

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...224_273676.htm

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...314_page_2.htm

Just search for other Ed Wallace articles, he's spot on. Note that I agree that there is no reason for oil to be rising how it is right now. My problem is that most people don't understand how the oil markets work well enough to be able to formulate an informed opinion.

I'd love for gasoline to be cheap forever if it wouldn't come at the expense of future energy security. Let's hope that someday someone much smarter than us figures out a way to remove speculation from the oil markets and leave the pricing of oil up to those that actually take delivery of it.

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post #7 of 66 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: More oil then can be stored and yet prices are rising

absolutley, gas effects the prices of EVERYTHING, if it costs more to ship it costs more to sell it. Just as oil prices hit the roof, the government allows electric companys to charge more. Conisidence??? Oil is worth more or equal to gold, we run out were up done for, so to assume its price has little effedct on our ecomonic situation is under-rating the power of money and energy.

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post #8 of 66 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 02:26 PM
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Re: More oil then can be stored and yet prices are rising

[quote author=3driverPA link=topic=146431.msg3149911#msg3149911 date=1243617391]
absolutley, gas effects prcies of EVERYTHING, cost more to ship it costs more to sell it. Just as oil prices hit the roof, the government allows electric companys to charge more. Conisidence??? Oil is worth or equal to gold, we run out were done so to assume its price has little effedct on our ecomonic situation is under-rating the power of money and energy.
[/quote]

First, this makes zero sense.

Since when is our electricity generated by oil?

Second, I'm fully aware of how energy impacts our economy. I'm saying that current energy price movement is NOT the reason we're not seeing a return to positive growth and would be impossible to argue otherwise. People aren't buying big TVs because they're worried about their jobs and unrealized investment losses, not because they're worried about gasoline prices.

This is why I support the higher CAFE standards even though I hate dislike Obama. Energy is a two sided issue: demand and supply. We have zero substantive ability to positively effect supply, so we better start reducing demand.



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post #9 of 66 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: More oil then can be stored and yet prices are rising

So your telling me all the industrial equipment used to mine coal, the trucks and heavy equipment that use oil, too lube the motors, ball joints, and god know how many other places oil is used in mining coal to generate electricity, and POWER the damn machines doesn't have any effect on what we pay the electric company's. There paying more for oil to you know. And i guess Id just coincidence that every major economic crisis was some how linked to or just happened to occur at the same times as the energy crisis'... I guess its also coincidence that the countrys who pay the most for gas are some of the poorest and vice versa.

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post #10 of 66 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 02:51 PM
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Re: More oil then can be stored and yet prices are rising

[quote author=3driverPA link=topic=146431.msg3149970#msg3149970 date=1243618981]
So your telling me all the industrial equipment used to mine coal, the trucks and heavy equipment that use oil, too lube the motors, ball joints, and god know how many other places oil is used in mining coal to generate electricity, and POWER the damn machines doesn't have any effect on what we pay the electric company's. There paying more for oil to you know.
[/quote]

Yes, I realize that. I also realize that the price of energy can in fact be inflationary. However, the spikes in kwh rates in electricity were largely due to the natural gas volatility. Maybe 5% of the increase could be remotely contributed to the rise in fuel used for transport and extraction.

[quote author=3driverPA link=topic=146431.msg3149970#msg3149970 date=1243618981]
And i guess Id just coincidence that every major economic crisis was some how linked to or just happened to occur at the same times as the energy crisis'...
[/quote]

First, energy prices are often an exaggerated and lagging indicator of economic activity and capital flows. Second, I never said that energy prices have no effect on the economy. Maybe it'll finally sink in now.

My entire point was that recent price trends have NOTHING to do with why we haven't seen a measurable rebound in consumer and overall economic activity.

[quote author=3driverPA link=topic=146431.msg3149970#msg3149970 date=1243618981]
I guess its also coincidence that the countrys who pay the most for gas are some of the poorest and vice versa.
[/quote]

LOL.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/en...asoline-prices

Yeah, there sure are a whole lot more poor countries in the top 20 of that list than the bottom 20

Quote:
# 1 Uruguay: 1.95
# 2 United Kingdom: 1.92
# 3 Israel: 1.87
# 4 Argentina: 1.75
= 5 Japan: 1.74
= 5 Finland: 1.74
# 7 Iceland: 1.72
# 8 Netherlands: 1.69
= 9 Denmark: 1.66
= 9 Burundi: 1.66
# 11 Zambia: 1.64
= 12 Central African Republic: 1.62
= 12 France: 1.62
# 14 Italy: 1.59
# 15 Belgium: 1.57
# 16 Sweden: 1.54
= 17 Brazil: 1.51
= 17 Korea, South: 1.51
# 19 Germany: 1.49

Bottom 20:
# 122 Kazakhstan: 0.59
# 123 Russia: 0.54
= 124 Ecuador: 0.51
= 124 Oman: 0.51
# 126 Angola: 0.49
= 127 Malaysia: 0.46
= 127 Sudan: 0.46
= 129 Nigeria: 0.44
= 129 Algeria: 0.44
# 131 Egypt: 0.43
= 132 Libya: 0.41
= 132 United Arab Emirates: 0.41
# 134 Saudi Arabia: 0.39
# 135 Kuwait: 0.34
# 136 Ghana: 0.33
# 137 Indonesia: 0.28
# 138 Venezuela: 0.2
# 139 Iran: 0.08
# 140 Iraq: 0.05
# 141 Turkmenistan:
Yep, nothing but a bunch of impoverished banana republics in that list.
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