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post #1 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 03:09 AM Thread Starter
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backdoor gun control

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=61

thanks obama

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post #2 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 04:43 AM
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Re: backdoor gun control

Oh joy


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post #3 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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Re: backdoor gun control

i feel i have to state my opinion on gun control

i have no problem with firearms registration
i have no problem with background checks
our country has a great thing called the national instant criminal backround check system. it works. there is no reason to wait 10 days to buy a handgun (nj law), no one goes to a gun store with plans to kill someone 5 minutes later.
i have a problem with many states requirments for a permit to carry, concealed carry permit, ect. the second amendment says you have the right to bear arms. but in nj for instance you do not have that right at all, unless you are in your own home. nj does not distinguish between open and concealed carry. in nj the only way to get a permit to carry is if your life is in imminent danger (such as having attempts on you life, restraining orders against people for violent crimes), if you are a security guard (which you are only allowed to carry on duty). there are rare exceptions to this.

why is it that a law abiding citizen, or someone with no history of violent crimes; cannot carry a firearm with them. what have they done to deserve their rights being taken away from them.
i agree with states such as colorado were an ordinary citizen with no violent crimes or felonies on their record, can goto the police station and apply for a ccp (concealed carry permit), and have it approved.

states such as nj do not allow open or closed carry in your vehicle any longer because it is not considered a private place. last time i checked i didnt let the public into my car.

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post #4 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 10:47 AM
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Re: backdoor gun control

I&#039;d agree that concealed carry should be legal in all states (and in your vehicle). Though I&#039;d actually argue that to a degree concealed carry should be the only generally legal way to carry. Open carry it certainly a bit more honest...but frankly raise your hand if it would unnerve you to see someone walking around with a pistol on their hip and they didn&#039;t have a uniform on. Personally it would unnerve me some to see someone walking around with a gun on their hip. If it was a common practice...then no it wouldn&#039;t unnerve me, but frankly in today&#039;s society it is not common to carry a firearm with you where ever you go (at least not in open display).

I think we do neeg a national registration of fire arms (no such deal now). I also think that private sales need to be handled differently. Right now you can basically sell a gun to anyone you want if you aren&#039;t a dealer and don&#039;t even have to ask for license information or keep track of who you sold a gun to. I think we should setup a brokerage law for fire arm sales. Any fire arm sales MUST be brokered by a licensed dealer who the must run the background check for the sale to be brokered and the fire arm dealer taking carry of registry. Set something like say a $20 or $40 brokerage fee and call it a day.

I know someone would bemoan that, but frankly when it comes down to it the registry system at least is significantly more lax then motor vehicle registration is in this country. It also isn&#039;t that significant a burden to have to go to a gun dealer, have them run a quick background check and then enter in the serial number and personal information of the buyer in to a national system and call it a day.
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post #5 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 11:01 AM
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Re: backdoor gun control

[quote author=azazel1024 link=topic=143619.msg3094276#msg3094276 date=1241099267]
I&#039;d agree that concealed carry should be legal in all states (and in your vehicle). Though I&#039;d actually argue that to a degree concealed carry should be the only generally legal way to carry. Open carry it certainly a bit more honest...but frankly raise your hand if it would unnerve you to see someone walking around with a pistol on their hip and they didn&#039;t have a uniform on. Personally it would unnerve me some to see someone walking around with a gun on their hip. If it was a common practice...then no it wouldn&#039;t unnerve me, but frankly in today&#039;s society it is not common to carry a firearm with you where ever you go (at least not in open display).

I think we do neeg a national registration of fire arms (no such deal now). I also think that private sales need to be handled differently. Right now you can basically sell a gun to anyone you want if you aren&#039;t a dealer and don&#039;t even have to ask for license information or keep track of who you sold a gun to. I think we should setup a brokerage law for fire arm sales. Any fire arm sales MUST be brokered by a licensed dealer who the must run the background check for the sale to be brokered and the fire arm dealer taking carry of registry. Set something like say a $20 or $40 brokerage fee and call it a day.

I know someone would bemoan that, but frankly when it comes down to it the registry system at least is significantly more lax then motor vehicle registration is in this country. It also isn&#039;t that significant a burden to have to go to a gun dealer, have them run a quick background check and then enter in the serial number and personal information of the buyer in to a national system and call it a day.
-Matt
[/quote]

I disagree with that part. I live in CA, and because the Beretta CX4 Storm has an open stock I can not purchase it because it is classified as an &quot;assault rifle.&quot; I also can&#039;t buy any gun here that holds more than 10 rounds. That is rediculous! I plan on going to an out of state gun show, and purchasing a weapon from a private seller without showing any ID. Even if it costs me more to do it that way, it is worth it. If there were a law that I had to use a licensed dealer, I would never be able to get the Beretta that I want. Besides, people that go to gun shows are generally decent law abiding citizens. Gang bangers, bank robbers and scum bags buy their guns out of the back of vans, or steal them and don&#039;t buy them at gun shows or from private citizens.
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post #6 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 11:09 AM
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Re: backdoor gun control

The vast majority of crimes are committed with weapons that are either stolen or purchased on the black market. So who gets the short end of the stick here? You got it --- the people who are law abiding citizens.

Also noted, an overwhelming majority of Mexican weapons are taken from their own army. Their army has one of the highest desertion rates in the world. These people who quit their ranking in the army take their guns with them and join the various cartels.

Quote:
&quot;90% of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States&quot;
This has been debunked by many academics. [1] This 90% statistic is only mentioned because the truth of the matter is that they did NOT do a statistical representation of a sample--they just traced all that they could. The Mexican government buys MANY of its&#39; arms from US manufacturers legally.

On another note, US law does not allow for easy purchase of any automatic weapons and does not allow ANYONE who is not military personnel to have any automatic weapons made after 1984 (which includes almost all M16s). No one is allowed to have grenades, rocket launchers, etc.


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post #7 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 11:18 AM
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Re: backdoor gun control

by taking away firearms or restricting acess to law abiding citizens all they are doing is encouraging criminals to perform more robberies. the criminals are always going to have their weapons if the gov bans firearms. if everyone was strapped then there would not be any crime. why would anyone try to rob a store or bank when everyone in the place is strapped. it also makes me mad that my concealed weapons permit is only valid in GA (i think Flordia respects it but im not sure)

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post #8 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 11:21 AM
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Re: backdoor gun control

True, but it is very easy to modify a semi automatic weapon in to a fully automatic weapon. Sure it is illegal to do so, but since it takes about 15 minutes, a few tools and google...

I still think we need a national registry and brokerage. I think some gun laws need a bit of relaxing, but I also think others need tightening up. I personally don&#039;t think semiautomatic rifles should be legal. Handguns are perfectly good for personal defense as are shotguns. For hunting a bolt action rifle is perfect. If you can&#039;t take down game with a bolt action rifle you shouldn&#039;t be using a semiautomatic rifle and when it comes down to it, under 99.9% of situations a handgun or shotgun is better for personal protection then a semiautomatic rifle is.

Sure, 99% of all weapons are bought by law abiding citizens. When it comes down to it though almost all weapons bought on the black market, used by drug dealers, whatever were at one point and time purchased legally. Put in a national registry and brokerage and eventually almost any weapons will be able to be tracked fairly effectively. Also sure, the statistic with Mexican weapons is out of all proportion, but frankly a very large number of fire arms in Mexico WERE purchased legally here and then illegally brought in to Mexico and many are not able to be effectively tracked because of the US patch work registry and purchase system.

As I mentioned, other then something like semiautomatic rifles (and even then I am pretty open to allowing them to remain legal, I just don&#039;t see the point), I don&#039;t think we need to restrict the purchase more, just how purchasing is allowed and tracked. Crap, you can&#039;t buy a car in the US and drive it on public roads (at least legally) without having it inspected and registered, why the hell shouldn&#039;t you have to have a fire arm registered?
-Matt
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post #9 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 11:28 AM
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Re: backdoor gun control

[quote author=shawngreen link=topic=143619.msg3094308#msg3094308 date=1241100070]
[quote author=azazel1024 link=topic=143619.msg3094276#msg3094276 date=1241099267]
I&#039;d agree that concealed carry should be legal in all states (and in your vehicle). Though I&#039;d actually argue that to a degree concealed carry should be the only generally legal way to carry. Open carry it certainly a bit more honest...but frankly raise your hand if it would unnerve you to see someone walking around with a pistol on their hip and they didn&#039;t have a uniform on. Personally it would unnerve me some to see someone walking around with a gun on their hip. If it was a common practice...then no it wouldn&#039;t unnerve me, but frankly in today&#039;s society it is not common to carry a firearm with you where ever you go (at least not in open display).

I think we do neeg a national registration of fire arms (no such deal now). I also think that private sales need to be handled differently. Right now you can basically sell a gun to anyone you want if you aren&#039;t a dealer and don&#039;t even have to ask for license information or keep track of who you sold a gun to. I think we should setup a brokerage law for fire arm sales. Any fire arm sales MUST be brokered by a licensed dealer who the must run the background check for the sale to be brokered and the fire arm dealer taking carry of registry. Set something like say a $20 or $40 brokerage fee and call it a day.

I know someone would bemoan that, but frankly when it comes down to it the registry system at least is significantly more lax then motor vehicle registration is in this country. It also isn&#039;t that significant a burden to have to go to a gun dealer, have them run a quick background check and then enter in the serial number and personal information of the buyer in to a national system and call it a day.
-Matt
[/quote]

I disagree with that part. I live in CA, and because the Beretta CX4 Storm has an open stock I can not purchase it because it is classified as an &quot;assault rifle.&quot; I also can&#039;t buy any gun here that holds more than 10 rounds. That is rediculous! I plan on going to an out of state gun show, and purchasing a weapon from a private seller without showing any ID. Even if it costs me more to do it that way, it is worth it. If there were a law that I had to use a licensed dealer, I would never be able to get the Beretta that I want. Besides, people that go to gun shows are generally decent law abiding citizens. Gang bangers, bank robbers and scum bags buy their guns out of the back of vans, or steal them and don&#039;t buy them at gun shows or from private citizens.
[/quote]

I don&#039;t entirely disgree with what you are saing (it being a bit ridiculous), the point is though that you can still purchase a fire arm for self defense, hunting and target shooting, even if it isn&#039;t the one YOU want.
-Matt
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post #10 of 60 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 11:36 AM
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Re: backdoor gun control

i dont want the gov to know what i have so when they decide they want to take weapons away they know exactly whos house to go to. i hate big gov and any law that gives them more power i disagree with. also i think if you want to have an assault rifle then you can buy one same thing with drugs, if you want to screw your body to die early then thats fine. thats what makes America the freedom of choice. maybe im paranoid and think that something like v for vendetta is going to happen.

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