UAW cost/benefit argument - FMVperformance.com : The site for all your Ford Mazda and Volvo needs
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post #1 of 302 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 05:49 AM Thread Starter
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UAW cost/benefit argument

[quote author=MZ6ZoomZoom link=topic=67926.msg1192842#msg1192842 date=1170881074]
[quote author=furious1auto link=topic=67926.msg1192829#msg1192829 date=1170880841]
As for the U.A.W. only 4%, yes 4% of thepurchase price of our vehicles represent our wages, benefits and, even car dicounts.
[/quote]

Um, the average PENSION COST ALONE in a GM vehicle is $1,300 per vehicle.
Also on average, GM takes 34 hours to build a car at $31 per hour... that's another $1,000, and that doesn't include employment insurance, workers comp, etc.

The biggest problems with unions though, is the work rules. The lack of flexibility.

Anyway, it isn't so much the current state of the unions that hurts the automakers, it's more the historic costs of former benefits and such (the old pensions, etc).

(Those numbers were quoted in Money, in Forbes, and in Slate, and track with what other sources historically have said)
[/quote] And I'd like to point something out to you most of your figures are wrong and none of them pertain to Ford. 1st of all of the big three are comparable in wages. None of the big three's pay scale has met $30.00 an hour nor will they ever. We have a pension fund that pays our pension liability it does not come out of our plant operating cost, so that bit about $1,300 per unit is false. Your scources are incorrect or you have misrepresented what you have read! And even if the fund had been under funded which it was not , it would not be after everyone who signed up for a buy out severs their employment. All those people where vested and will no longer be entitled after accepting the lump sum pay out. Most importantly I don't work for GM. We don't have nearly as many failing brands. We may not hold as much market share but, ford is sitting on $38,000,000,000 liquid cash restructure. Meaning a 21% reduction in capacity and an initial 30,000 reduction in assembly workers. All manufacturing plants with a product will operate under a COA (Collective Operating Agreement). Basically eliminating restrictive work rules. Lastly all off line jobs or non assembly (core) operation will be outsourced. We do make a good living but it's still only 4% of the purchase price as per the UAW which has internal access to their books. This buyout seems to have attrackted the unproductive workers. 8,000 of them left in January. They will be profiable again, although they may never out sell their competition. They are more focused on selling all they build. Not over building.

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post #2 of 302 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 06:03 AM Thread Starter
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UAW cost/benefit argument

[quote author=RB link=topic=67926.msg1193186#msg1193186 date=1170887909]
[quote author=edrection link=topic=67926.msg1192933#msg1192933 date=1170882611]
Well, if our current policies worked, I wouldnt be talking. I dont want a empire, I just want a actual democracy. Not what we have now. But I respect your views.
[/quote]

What is your definition of democracy? Policies that don't work according to the majority of citizens often change. Elections happen, routinely. If I'm not mistaken, the Democrats recently took control of Congress.
[/quote] If you don't have your own personal interests to protect then, why would you not want the poulation make their own decisions. Once we elect an asshole it takes 2 to 4 years to get rid of him. You can pass alot of bad legilation in 2 to 4 years! Up till this point there have been no consiquences for poor performance. Not getting relected is not enough. I don't want to see anyone punished anyway. I just want to see the people fairly represented!

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post #3 of 302 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 09:57 AM
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UAW cost/benefit argument

$30/hour for production line workers? :shock: Am I the only one that thinks that's a bit high?


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post #4 of 302 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 09:59 AM
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UAW cost/benefit argument

hey, if they were too high the company wouldnt pay it.
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post #5 of 302 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 10:01 AM
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UAW cost/benefit argument

[quote author=edrection link=topic=67926.msg1194274#msg1194274 date=1170943156]
hey, if they were too high the company wouldnt pay it.
[/quote]

Or would be losing billions of dollars a year.


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post #6 of 302 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 10:08 AM
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UAW cost/benefit argument

the big3 lose money because they build low quality cars and people realize that. They were paying these kind of wages (inflation adjusted) and retirement for decades and making billions of dollars in profits. Only thing that changed is people arent gonna settle for red white and blue junk. They will instead buy Japanese.

BTW. The big3 are building more plants in Mexico and Canada than they are here. Honda/Toyota are building its plants in the US.
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post #7 of 302 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 10:18 AM
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UAW cost/benefit argument

[quote author=hwm3 link=topic=67926.msg1194272#msg1194272 date=1170943065]
$30/hour for production line workers? :shock: Am I the only one that thinks that's a bit high?
[/quote]

Not when you count in the taxes that have to be paid, etc. Not all that money goes to the worker. GM's average cost is $31/hr. Toyota's is $27/hr.
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post #8 of 302 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 10:19 AM
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UAW cost/benefit argument

[quote author=edrection link=topic=67926.msg1194283#msg1194283 date=1170943700]
BTW. The big3 are building more plants in Mexico and Canada than they are here. Honda/Toyota are building its plants in the US.
[/quote]

Are the plants in Mexico and Canada UAW plants? How about the Honda/Toyota plants?

Also, it's just the big2 now, since Chrysler no longer stands on it's own.


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post #9 of 302 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 10:21 AM
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UAW cost/benefit argument

They're still called the Big 3, hmw3... even if Chrysler isn't actually its own company anymore. And of course, that also isn't taking into account the fact that Toyota is there too. Which is why it's the "big 3 American's."
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post #10 of 302 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 10:22 AM
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UAW cost/benefit argument

[quote author=MZ6ZoomZoom link=topic=67926.msg1194297#msg1194297 date=1170944316]
[quote author=hwm3 link=topic=67926.msg1194272#msg1194272 date=1170943065]
$30/hour for production line workers? :shock: Am I the only one that thinks that's a bit high?
[/quote]

Not when you count in the taxes that have to be paid, etc. Not all that money goes to the worker. GM's average cost is $31/hr. Toyota's is $27/hr.
[/quote]

OK, so we're not talking about the production workers making $30/hr? That's what it costs the manufacturer per hour for each worker?


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