So I heard this rumor... - FMVperformance.com : The site for all your Ford Mazda and Volvo needs
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post #1 of 117 (permalink) Old 12-13-2006, 11:51 PM Thread Starter
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So I heard this rumor...

... that we don't have to pay federal income tax because it's unconstitutional and no law exists that says we do. Supposedly, the IRS has been asked many times to produce for the public a copy of the law that gives them the right to tax us, and they never did... because supposedly there isn't one. Supposedly, a federal court ruling authorizes the IRS to collect taxes, but the language suggests that wage earners in the private sector (ie., us) are excluded. Supposedly, a great deal of Americans don't file their federal tax forms every year, and nothing ever happens to them despite all the IRS's bitching because they don't have a case.

Is this true? Has anyone else heard about this?

As much as I hate conspiracy videos, I'm intrigued by a video that I'm currently watching called "America: Freedom to Fascism" but I don't want to celebrate the idea of not ever having to pay federal income tax again until someone can verify :-P

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...dom+to+Fascism

If the video is a repost, disregard. I'm interested in the topic, not the video. Maybe I'm late to the scene, but this is the first time I'm hearing anything about this.



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post #2 of 117 (permalink) Old 12-14-2006, 07:49 AM
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Re: So I heard this rumor...

I dont know if this is true but a lot of people get charged for not paying taxes. Isnt wesly snipes being charged in not paying taxes?
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post #3 of 117 (permalink) Old 12-14-2006, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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Re: So I heard this rumor...

I'm not sure... I have no idea what the validity of these claims are, but WOW that movie left a bad feeling in my stomach. I watched the last 3/4 of it after I posted, and if any of it is true, then I don't understand why Americans aren't up in arms right now!

I don't think I trust the Federal Reserve anymore :shock:

One of the points discussed in the film is that our government does not exercise its power to produce its own currency, but instead it borrows it from the Federal Reserve, which is a privately owned bank. It says that private bankers have our gold, and they're giving us worthless paper money back... because it isn't backed by anything. In addition, the government pays interest to the Reserve for the notes. As a result, the value of the US dollar is next to nothing.

The same secret group of bankers that runs the Reserve has a plot to form a universal government for the whole world. The EU? The recent attempt to unify the US. Mexico, and Canada? The bankers are running that show and our federal income tax money is being used to fund it!!! They want to form a global, central police state for everyone... and they want to control us with technology and continued breaches of our privacy.

They mention that many people incorrectly think that the income tax is needed to do things like maintain highways and fund public schools... except there are already taxes in place that fund those things. Gasoline has a built-in tax at the pump which pays for road maintenance. Local property taxes fund public schools, etc. They claim that none of our income tax is used for those things!

These are some hefty claims, but if any of it is true... I'm scared. Very, very scared.

Everyone should set aside 2 hours to watch this video. I want to discuss it-- good or bad, true or false. Is this film just propaganda, or is it legit???




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post #4 of 117 (permalink) Old 12-14-2006, 09:04 AM
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Re: So I heard this rumor...

regardless of whether or not its written down in law, the cops will still arrest you and throw you in jail for tax evasion. . .

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post #5 of 117 (permalink) Old 12-14-2006, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: So I heard this rumor...

And that's a problem if they are! There needs to be a fair trial.... and if there isn't, it's probably because they don't want to expose the fact that there IS no law regarding federal income tax for individuals!!! They're fucking robbing us and using the money to take over the world! Holy shit, I don't know how I've been so blind. This country is run by a small group of private bankers... NOT the people! We're headed in the wrong direction folks.

Why is the government paying interest to private banks for our currency!? That's absurd! One of the functions of government is to produce its own currency, interest free... and it SHOULD be backed by gold! But ours isn't anymore!
Why do private bankers have our gold!?

I'm really ticked off after watching that damned video. What the hell are we doing about this as Americans!? Why are we giving so much of our money to private bankers, who in turn charge us interest just to control us!?!?

The Federal Reserve is NOT a federal agency. The IRS has NO authority to tax our income. Social Security is NOT a welfare fund. Our money is being stolen and used against us!

F*CK!


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post #6 of 117 (permalink) Old 12-14-2006, 09:28 AM
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Re: So I heard this rumor...

conspiracy theories are great aren't they. . .

do you have a source for this rumor? I'd be interested to hear it. . .

other than a random internet video of course, looking for a REPUTABLE source

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post #7 of 117 (permalink) Old 12-14-2006, 09:29 AM
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Re: So I heard this rumor...

It is a written law.

Basically people try to argue that the 16th amendment was never ratified and thus income tax is unconstitutional. I have bad news for them, it was ratified.

"Amendment XVI
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration. "

So the only argument was that it was never ratified (and it was). Considering that it is written into the constitution I think their argument is a little specious.

I don't know of any countries that still use either a gold or silver standard anymore. US currency is not backed by the federal reserve stores of gold or silver. It used to be, but it hasn't since 1971. Therefore *US currency notes are not written as an indemnity against existing gold held by the federal reserve bank. Also the federal reserve banks are quasi governmental. Read the following judicial opinion

"The Federal Reserve Banks are nominally "owned" by private "member banks" (in that each member bank owns nonnegotiable shares of stock in its regional Federal Reserve Bank; see below). In Lewis v. United States,[2], the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit stated that "the Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the FTCA [the Federal Tort Claims Act], but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations." The opinion also stated that "the Reserve Banks have properly been held to be federal instrumentalities for some purposes.""

They are a bit of a grey area.

They are correct, in a fashion. Generally property taxes are used by states to provide the bulk of funding for local school systems. However, the federal monies used for education do not come from property taxes paid to the states. Gas taxes also supply a portion of the monies used for highway construction and maitanance, but again, not all of it, and not the federal monies that are provided to states for interstate construction.

On the federal level the taxes that are collected are pretty much put into a pot and then whatever money the government spends comes out of that pot. So a capitol gains tax you pay on a stock might be used for paying a TSA agents salary just as much as your income taxes might be or maybe your social security taxes are being used for that purpose.

That is something that a lot of people don't understand is that ALL of the taxes collected are put into a pool, this includes social security and medicare taxes. At current the social security taxes collected are higher then the benifits that are paid out. So the extra money is given to the treasury department and the treasury department writes an 'I.O.U.' to the social security administration saying that they will pay the money back later. That is where the 'Social Security running out of money' is a bit of a lie. That date is when the benifits paid out are less then SS taxes brought in AND treasury has paid back all the IOUs.

Well I have a sad story for you, since effectively all the money goes to one pot the more benifits that are paid out the less 'excess' SS taxes there are that can be used to fund other programs for the government. Once there are more benifits being paid out then SS taxes brought in income or other taxes will HAVE to go up so that treasury can pay those IOUs it has been writing for so long.

If you want a fuller explination of that I can provide it if you would like.

Basically the movie you are talking about (I didn't bother watching it) is wrong.

Income taxes are fully legal and you can and will be prosecuted if you don't file your taxes (or if you lie about them the IRS will likely find out down the road sometime, even if you get away with it for 5 or 10 or 15 years). Property taxes do not provide 100% funding for public school systems and gas taxes do not provide 100% funding for highway construction and maintenance, some of that is going to come from other tax revenues (income, excise, liquor taxes, etc).
-Matt

PS so you are basically gulible for believing a crack pot conspiracy theory. At least research things before you believe them.
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post #8 of 117 (permalink) Old 12-14-2006, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: So I heard this rumor...

[quote author=azazel1024 link=topic=64586.msg1107839#msg1107839 date=1166106587]
It is a written law.

Basically people try to argue that the 16th amendment was never ratified and thus income tax is unconstitutional. I have bad news for them, it was ratified.

"Amendment XVI
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration. "
[/quote]

I believe they addressed that in the video, too...

Anyway, this is why I posted. The video got my blood pressure up to like 200 and I want to be sure that it isn't propaganda. But right now, everything in the video is making way too much sense.


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post #9 of 117 (permalink) Old 12-14-2006, 09:41 AM
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Re: So I heard this rumor...

Off course it make sense. They probably twisted facts like the 9-11 videos out there. I didnt watch the video but I will continue to pay my taxes!!!!
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post #10 of 117 (permalink) Old 12-14-2006, 09:43 AM
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Re: So I heard this rumor...

you don't have to pay taxes. You absolutely, 100%, DO NOT have to pay taxes. You can choose fines and jail instead, but you don't have to pay taxes.

Although, I often wonder what would happen if NOBODY paid their taxes. They can't put everyone in jail. Seeing as how most people have their taxes taken out of their paycheck, it would be tough to orchestrate.

[quote author=azazel1024 link=topic=64586.msg1107839#msg1107839 date=1166106587]
stuff
[/quote]

I was going to post almost exactly what you did, you just got to it first. Bastard!

Do these people even know what the Constitution IS, let alone read and understand it?

[quote author=3AndMe link=topic=64586.msg1107785#msg1107785 date=1166103982]
I'm not sure... I have no idea what the validity of these claims are, but WOW that movie left a bad feeling in my stomach. *I watched the last 3/4 of it after I posted, and if any of it is true, then I don't understand why Americans aren't up in arms right now!

I don't think I trust the Federal Reserve anymore :shock:

One of the points discussed in the film is that our government does not exercise its power to produce its own currency, but instead it borrows it from the Federal Reserve, which is a privately owned bank. *It says that private bankers have our gold, and they're giving us worthless paper money back... because it isn't backed by anything. *In addition, the government pays interest to the Reserve for the notes. *As a result, the value of the US dollar is next to nothing.

The same secret group of bankers that runs the Reserve has a plot to form a universal government for the whole world. *The EU? *The recent attempt to unify the US. Mexico, and Canada? *The bankers are running that show and our federal income tax money is being used to fund it!!! *They want to form a global, central police state for everyone... and they want to control us with technology and continued breaches of our privacy.

They mention that many people incorrectly think that the income tax is needed to do things like maintain highways and fund public schools... except there are already taxes in place that fund those things. *Gasoline has a built-in tax at the pump which pays for road maintenance. *Local property taxes fund public schools, etc. *They claim that none of our income tax is used for those things!

These are some hefty claims, but if any of it is true... I'm scared. *Very, very scared.

Everyone should set aside 2 hours to watch this video. *I want to discuss it-- good or bad, true or false. *Is this film just propaganda, or is it legit???
[/quote]

You are SOOOOO wrong. Everyone knows that the world is run by a secret society known as "The Pentaverat", who meet triannually at a secret country mansion in Colorado known as "The Meadows." It's composed of the Queen, The Vatican, The Getty's, The Rothschilds, and Colonel Sanders before he went tits up. *Oooh, I hate the Colonel. With he wee beady eyes and that smug look on his face. "ooo, you're gonna buy my chicken, ooo". He puts an addictive chemical in it that makes you crave it fortnightly.

Seriously, dude...Why the hell do we laugh at the shit we read in the Enquirer, but if someone puts a movie on the internet it is somehow worthly of everyone's consideration?

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