Forget hydrogen!!!: Gas engines are here to stay! - FMVperformance.com : The site for all your Ford Mazda and Volvo needs
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 02:24 AM Thread Starter
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Forget hydrogen!!!: Gas engines are here to stay!

Quote:
Spanish firm claims it can make oil from plankton
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060720/...in_plankton_dc

Thu Jul 20, 11:46 AM ET
A Spanish company claimed on Thursday to have developed a method of breeding plankton and turning the marine plants into oil, providing a potentially inexhaustible source of clean fuel.

Vehicle tests are some time away because the company, Bio Fuel Systems, has not yet tried refining the dark green coloured crude oil phytoplankton turn into, a spokesman said.

Bio Fuel Systems is a wholly Spanish firm, formed this year in eastern Spain after three years of research by scientists and engineers connected with the University of Alicante.

"Bio Fuel Systems has developed a process that converts energy, based on three elements: solar energy, photosynthesis and an electromagnetic field," it said in a press dossier.

"That process allows us to obtain biopetroleum, equivalent to that of fossil origin."

Phytoplankton, like other plants, absorb carbon dioxide as they grow. Scientists have examined the possibility of stimulating growth of the single cell plants as a means of reducing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.

CO2, liberated by burning fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas, is widely held responsible for global warming.

Bio Fuel Systems said its new fuel would reduce CO2, was free of other contaminants like sulphur dioxide and would be cheaper than fossil oil is now.

"Our system of bioconversion is about 400 times more productive than any other plant-based system producing oil or ethanol," it said, referring to currently available biofuels made from plants like maize or oilseeds.

Bio Fuel Systems is working with scientists at the University of Alicante on the project. It has drawn up industrial plans to make the fuel and says it will be able to start continuous production in 14 to 18 months.


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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 08:14 AM
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Re: Forget hydrogen!!!: Gas engines are here to stay!


That is quite interesting. However, combustion will still be required and that results in CO2 emissions. Even if the planktons absorb CO2 while growing (much the same way all vegetation does I presume) it still won't offset the CO2 that results as a byproduct of combustion. Hydrogen fuel cells on the other hand only produce water as a byproduct. And who doesn't like water? However, alternate sources of fuel that can replace fossil fuels without the need of specific engines or equipment can certainly help alleviate the price of gasoline and other petroleum products. However, seeing as how other biofuels such as ethanol haven't made much of an impact as of yet, it remains to be seen if any significant effect will be seen in the next decade or so.

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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 08:54 AM
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Re: Forget hydrogen!!!: Gas engines are here to stay!

Look at brazil, and the fact that they have turned their entire economy to non-oil. Hydroelectric powers everything, ethanol and flexfuel cars, tax incentives for cleaner vehicles, so yes... combustible is here to stay.

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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 09:00 AM
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Re: Forget hydrogen!!!: Gas engines are here to stay!

I would love a hydrogen car. I just have to wonder about the longevity of the exaust system when all it ever sees is water. Even stainless systems eventually rot.
post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Forget hydrogen!!!: Gas engines are here to stay!

[quote author=Smokin link=topic=52052.msg836508#msg836508 date=1153484079]

That is quite interesting. However, combustion will still be required and that results in CO2 emissions. Even if the planktons absorb CO2 while growing (much the same way all vegetation does I presume) it still won't offset the CO2 that results as a byproduct of combustion. Hydrogen fuel cells on the other hand only produce water as a byproduct. And who doesn't like water?
[/quote]

I don't like water! This could happen!!!:



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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 09:02 AM
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Re: Forget hydrogen!!!: Gas engines are here to stay!

Except all of the CO2 that is emitted in burning the biopetrol would be absorbed in the new batch that is grown. Same thing with ethanol from plants, all the CO2 that is emitted is reabsorbed for the next batch.

All the oil we are turning into petrol and diesal started as plants and animals that absorbed CO2 out of the atmosphere to grow then died and formed into oil. At one point in time there was a lot more CO2 in the atmosphere and it eventually became trapped in dead plants and animals (coal and oil)...we are rereleasing it into the atmosphere. Of course I don't think we want all that extra CO2 back into the atmosphere...it might have been fine for dinosaurs and such...but we don't really want it back (They certainly didn't mind living with the world quite a bit warmer then it is now, but I think we feel differently).

If the reserachers can actuallys refine that into petrol and other petroleum products great, especially if there is a way to mass raise the phytoplankton that is needed. I am sure it will take a decade or two before it could be commercial and another 1-2 decades to replace the stuff we pull from the ground (or be a major supplement). Still, for the future it could be great.

Regarding fuel cells, right now almost all of the hydrogen used in fuel cells is actually stripped out of natural gas as it is cheaper and less energy intensive then electrolysis of water (which would require power, which generally comes from coal or natural gas power plants). Penn State researchers about a year or so ago developed a phytoplankton that releases hydrogen that could be cultivated to produce hydrogen for a hydrogen based infrastructure at some future date...that would be a truely green way of getting the hydrogen we need (only other way that would be green is using renewable energy to crack water, either solar, hydro, or wind power). Otherwise you pollute as much or more to use a fuel cell vehicle then it is to use a gas powered vehicle.
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Forget hydrogen!!!: Gas engines are here to stay!

^^ good post! i merely titled this forget hydrogen cuz you gotta have love for internal combustion!


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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 11:14 AM
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Re: Forget hydrogen!!!: Gas engines are here to stay!

[quote author=azazel1024 link=topic=52052.msg836547#msg836547 date=1153486945]
Except all of the CO2 that is emitted in burning the biopetrol would be absorbed in the new batch that is grown. Same thing with ethanol from plants, all the CO2 that is emitted is reabsorbed for the next batch. [/quote]

How did you make the assumption that a new batch would uptake ALL CO2 released as byproduct during combustion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by azazel1024"
All the oil we are turning into petrol and diesal started as plants and animals that absorbed CO2 out of the atmosphere to grow then died and formed into oil. At one point in time there was a lot more CO2 in the atmosphere and it eventually became trapped in dead plants and animals (coal and oil)...we are rereleasing it into the atmosphere.
I'm no biology expert but I don't think animals are suppose to be absorbing any CO2. Plants use it during photosynthesis but except maybe for some species of anaeronic microbes, animals have no use for CO2. CO2 did not get trapped into animals and plants and that isn't really how it is being released into the atmosphere. We are all carbon based lifeforms (trees, animals, humans). Our bodies decompose via various chemical processes that results in fossil fuels. These fuels are basically hydrocarbons. Hydrocarbons when combined with oxygen will result in CO2 and water if the combustion is complete. If the combustion isn't complete you also release other gases such as Carbon Monoxide (CO), SOx and NOx. Idealized (complete) combustion isn't always achievable (the reason why we need catalytic converters on our cars) because it hard to maintain the ideal stoichiometric ratio required.

All of the above isn't to say I'm against IC engines. However, it's high time we had viable alternatives, not just biofuels but also hydrogen fuel cells and solar energy, etc. Also my comment 'and who doesn't like water' was a bit tongue in cheek. Water vapour is the ultimate greenhouse gas and by far has the largest impact on temperature (i.e. humidity). So it also IS NOT the only solution that should be pursued.

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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 12:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Forget hydrogen!!!: Gas engines are here to stay!

[quote author=Smokin link=topic=52052.msg836782#msg836782 date=1153494885]
Water vapour is the ultimate greenhouse gas and by far has the largest impact on temperature (i.e. humidity). So it also IS NOT the only solution that should be pursued.
[/quote]

There are several things I guess I have to disagree with.
First. You are right Smokin- C02 is not absorbed by animals it's made by animals (among other things)
Also, it'll be great to have options other then internal combustion.

I have to disagree, water vapor doesn't affect temprature at all. It does affect humidity. It is definitley NOT a green house gas.


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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-21-2006, 01:55 PM
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Re: Forget hydrogen!!!: Gas engines are here to stay!



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