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post #1 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-15-2006, 06:11 AM Thread Starter
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Israel vs. Hezbollah

as i was enjoying my time with miller lite after a hard nights work, i came across the headline article on CNN. Israel is at war with Hezbollah. what a buzz kill.

some of you might already know but Hezbollah is a Shiite militant group in Lebanon. this really worries me because Hezbollah are allies with Iran (may hold nuclear arms) and Syria. not only that but this war is affecting oil prices and our economy. an Israeli ambassador claims that two of the long range missles fired upon them were made in Iran. so off the bat we know Iran is supporting Hezbollah.

now, im asking myself. what are we (America) going to do about this? i mean, we already emphasize the concept (which is right) of destroying terrorism to the ground. should we help Israel? or should we step in as the big dog that we are and try to enforce a cease fire? or simply do nothing at all and maybe wait for a different powerhouse nation to step in? we already have Iraq (billiions and billions of $$$) which isnt looking great at all. can we invest more money into helping a lost cause? will americans back up the president in doing so?

this is serious stuff because we cant just let these two countries go at war while our economy is declining. in order to save the economy from plummeting, we have to step in. i just hope we dont send military personal to Israel to help them fight. Iraq AND Lebanon-Iran. it's like walking into the lion's den.

scary thing is Iraq is smack in the middle between Iran and Syria. :?

what do you think Murph (and of course everyone else)?
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post #2 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-15-2006, 06:27 AM
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Re: Israel vs. Hezbollah

Israel can take care of itself. 7-day war anyone?

Besides, they buy all their best toys off us.

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post #3 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-15-2006, 06:35 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Israel vs. Hezbollah

i like your humor Daughen
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post #4 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-15-2006, 07:12 AM
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Re: Israel vs. Hezbollah

[quote author=ADaughen link=topic=51575.msg825073#msg825073 date=1152959230]
Israel can take care of itself. 7-day war anyone?

Besides, they buy all their best toys off us.

actually, this is exactly what i was going to say....and nobody is going to jump into the fray publicly with hizbollah because if they did they know we or the u.n. would have to jump in....israel has been waiting for this day. they been planning this exact scenario for literally years. i'm guessing they're going to put i quick strangle hold on the entire country... the people of lebanon are not part of hizbollah. there is a majority that would like to be rid of the hizbollah, including the gov't of lebanon but hizbollah is too powerful to control. this may be what lebanon needs to get their shit together

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post #5 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-15-2006, 09:08 AM
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Re: Israel vs. Hezbollah

I saw this in the news and I couldn't believe some terrorist group wants to go to war with Israel. On one side you have a slightly armed group of militants up against a full blown military and the best air force in the world. Sounds a little one sided, it's like David vs Goliath but this time David doesnt have a slingshot and Goliath has a full blown M16.

If anyone is going to step in here I think it will be the UN, if this war lasts that long. Israel is already blowing the crap out of Hezbollah and I don't think they are going to stop anytime soon. I am willing to deal with higher gas prices for a couple of month knowing that more terrorists are dieing because of it.

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post #6 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-15-2006, 09:09 AM
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Re: Israel vs. Hezbollah

erm, that's not a joke -- it's a fact. *Israel is a million time better equipped than any of the countries around it. *Witness Israel destroying a civillian airport in a sovereign country and nobody doing anything about it.

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post #7 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-15-2006, 09:39 AM
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Re: Israel vs. Hezbollah

GO ISRAEL!! They probably have the 3rd best armed forces in the world (behind US and maybe Russia). They have to, or they would have been wiped off the map long ago. Our armed services, as great as they are, do a lot of things for the US from fighting wars to humanitarian assistance. Israel's armed services [b]literally guarantees the nations existence[/b]. I'm glad they are on our side.

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post #8 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-15-2006, 10:00 AM
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Re: Israel vs. Hezbollah

Quotes that might help to explain the Arab backlash against Israel...let us not forget that Israel was created by taking Palestinian land, with the Holocaust used as justification for the creation of their state. Nothing against the people themselves, but since the US is so much tied hand-in-hand with Israel, we do not often get to see the other side of the story. I do not support terrorist acts on either side, and both are guilty of such crimes, I think. Anyway, something to think about....

"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."

-- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).


David Ben Gurion
Prime Minister of Israel
1949 - 1954,
1955 - 1963

"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."
-- Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.

"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."
-- Golda Meir, March 8, 1969.

"Any one who speaks in favor of bringing the Arab refugees back must also say how he expects to take the responsibility for it, if he is interested in the state of Israel. It is better that things are stated clearly and plainly: We shall not let this happen."
-- Golda Meir, 1961, in a speech to the Knesset, reported in Ner, October 1961

"This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy."
-- Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971


Golda Meir
Prime Minister of Israel
1969 - 1974

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

"[Israel will] create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the west Bank to Jordan. To achieve this we have to come to agreement with King Hussein and not with Yasser Arafat."
-- Yitzhak Rabin (a "Prince of Peace" by Clinton's standards), explaining his method of ethnically cleansing the occupied land without stirring a world outcry. (Quoted in David Shipler in the New York Times, 04/04/1983 citing Meir Cohen's remarks to the Knesset's foreign affairs and defense committee on March 16.)

Yitzhak Rabin
Prime Minister of Israel
1974 - 1977,
1992 - 1995

"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982.

"The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever."
-- Menachem Begin, the day after the U.N. vote to partition Palestine.

Menachem Begin
Prime Minister of Israel
1977 - 1983

"The past leaders of our movement left us a clear message to keep Eretz Israel from the Sea to the River Jordan for future generations, for the mass aliya (=Jewish immigration), and for the Jewish people, all of whom will be gathered into this country."
-- Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir declares at a Tel Aviv memorial service for former Likud leaders, November 1990. Jerusalem Domestic Radio Service.

"The settlement of the Land of Israel is the essence of Zionism. Without settlement, we will not fulfill Zionism. It's that simple."
-- Yitzhak Shamir, Maariv, 02/21/1997.

"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

Yizhak Shamir
Prime Minister of Israel
1983 - 1984,
1986 - 1992

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.

Benjamin Netanyahu
Prime Minister of Israel
1996 - 1999

"The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more"....
-- Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000

"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000.

"I would have joined a terrorist organization."
-- Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.


Ehud Barak
Prime Minister of Israel
1999 - 2001

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News

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post #9 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-15-2006, 10:27 AM
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Re: Israel vs. Hezbollah

Ahhh.... the good old Israel / Middle East / Terrorism debate.... I should really know better than to get involved, but why not pull a Dubs and spark some more debate? ;-) I look forward to Murph chiming in....

Today, I'd like to understand what people think "terrorism" really is. The American HeritageŽ Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition defines terrorism as:
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
By that definition alone (trying to remain objective, that is) I'd consider the US invasion of Iraq to be an act of terrorism, even the American Revolution would be terrorism in my mind. It just seems that the winner / more powerful party involved gets to write the history books and are the "right" ones in the end.

Let's hear it Murph!

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post #10 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-15-2006, 10:30 AM
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Re: Israel vs. Hezbollah

Ya know, I generally support Israel when they go after people/groups/whatever, but this is RIDICULOUS. Israel has now invaded another COUNTRY, and is destroying that country's infrastructure for no apparent reason. The government of Lebanon - one of the most stable countries in the middle east, and the most westernized - is to blame for some terror group? Freakin ridiculous.

When I first heard about it I heard that Israel had gone in to nab some terrorists... fine, I mean that's not great, but fine. But now it has turned into an all out invasion and bombing campaign. Freakin ridiculous.
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