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post #1 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-14-2005, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
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Capital Punishment: Revenge or Justice?

Well, since I searched and didn't see one, I thought I'd start a thread on capital punishment in light of the Tookie Williams execution, just to see everyone's opinion.

I know I, for one, am against capital punishment. I believe no one has the right to decide if someone lives or dies, regardless of the crime. Tookie was a fully rehabilitated individual who, for years, strived to prevent others from making his same mistakes. His case should have been reviewed so he could recieve a life sentence in order to continue doing the work of educating others. Not many others behind bars would have done the same with their time. IMO

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post #2 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-15-2005, 12:14 AM
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Re: Capital Punishment: Revenge or Justice?

Nice, I totally agree with ya. I understand how much pain the victim's family might be going through, but that in no way makes it acceptable to kill the person who did the crime. I guess this always comes down to personal judgement, and I see capital punishment on the same low level as murdering itself.


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post #3 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-15-2005, 01:48 AM
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Re: Capital Punishment: Revenge or Justice?

[quote author=MJzoom05 link=topic=35690.msg511088#msg511088 date=1134618910]
Well, since I searched and didn't see one, I thought I'd start a thread on capital punishment in light of the Tookie Williams execution, just to see everyone's opinion.

I know I, for one, am against capital punishment. I believe no one has the right to decide if someone lives or dies, regardless of the crime. Tookie was a fully rehabilitated individual who, for years, strived to prevent others from making his same mistakes. His case should have been reviewed so he could recieve a life sentence in order to continue doing the work of educating others. Not many others behind bars would have done the same with their time. IMO
[/quote]

To your intial point, I believe in the use of the death penalty.* I also believe they should expand the number of crimes that can recieve the Death Penalty, child molestation, unusually cruel and sadistic rapes, to name a couple, off the top of my head.


Your other point about Tookie being "fully rehabilitated", does not go along with the facts. He refused to help solve other crimes committed by one of the most violent gangs in US history, that he helped co-found. And he never apologized for the brutal shotgun murders he committed. Refusing to do either of those things, shows me he was not "fully rehabilitated".

As far as his claims of innocence, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, reviewed his case. It is the most liberal court in the US and if they couldn't find a way to get him a new trial or reduced sentence, then in my eyes he is guilty.
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post #4 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-15-2005, 02:59 AM
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Re: Capital Punishment: Revenge or Justice?

I am pro life so no go on the death penalty. I get more pleasure knowing someone is suffering every day in a 8x4 cell instead of taking the easy way out with death.

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post #5 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-15-2005, 04:56 AM
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Re: Capital Punishment: Revenge or Justice?

[quote author=Olive Drab link=topic=35690.msg511246#msg511246 date=1134629951]
I am pro life so no go on the death penalty. I get more pleasure knowing someone is suffering every day in a 8x4 cell instead of taking the easy way out with death.
[/quote]

they dont have a easy way out
the time beetewn sentencing and excution in US is average 10.6 years
in this time the one spends 23h a day in a cell with a book
now how many time do you think he was thinking about his death ... alot...alot that more painfull then the execution itsellf

by the time of the execution there where some cases when the one still had the right to apeel they said fuck it and ask for the exectuion to be done faster....after 10 years locked and visializing theyr own death the real death is a good escape


and to answer to the question NO i don't agree with it
instead of kiling him - make him work

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post #6 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-15-2005, 09:28 AM
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Re: Capital Punishment: Revenge or Justice?

I think the DP is absolutely wrong. Morally, I can't accept that we tell someone it's no ok to kill by killing them. Once someone is in custody, their life should be protected. I can't wrap my brain around the idea that all life is sacred, except for those lives that have been politically determined to be deserving of termination. It's never been proven to be an effective deterrant. It costs the state many times what life in prison would cost. It completely removes any chance that if someone were to be later proven innocent they could be returned to society. And I disagree with it because it has nothing to do with justice, it's about vengeance.

All that being said, I did not support Tookie's request for clemency. He has never apologized or expressed remorse for the murders he committed. After he was arrested, he planned a break-out from jail that involved killing correctional officers. I don't see how writing a few childrens books somehow makes someone "rehabilitated" when they have caused so much pain. Why shouldn't every single criminal in prison be granted clemency, or reduced sentences, or simply let go if they write a childrens book? Doing a little bit of good does not make up for grievous wrongs. Especially if you continue to deny the wrongdoing.

I support life without parole over the death penalty, and think Tookie should have been given life from the begininning. I would have been happy if he had been granted clemency because the punishment was wrong. But I don't support his claims to have reformed and changed, and don't think that he should have been rewarded.
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post #7 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-15-2005, 10:09 AM
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Re: Capital Punishment: Revenge or Justice?

I think the DP is appropriate. Why should murderers be allowed to continue their lives when they took the one of someone else? Sure itís a quick fix solution and it might not be a deterrent to everybody but MANY people will fear it. Even then, the justice system needs improving and only those found to be 100% guilty should get it. Do it and be done with it. Sometimes the only appropriate punishment is an eye for an eye. What can we get really by keeping rightfully convicted murderers in prison? Sure killing them only gives us the piece of mind of knowing thatís one less lunatic out there but I would rather have that than a bunch of childrenís books writers that pretend to care and have changed to get out of jail. The Tookie story isnít covered so much here in Canada but form what I saw, he deserved it. I donít care what anybody says, thereís no rehabilitation for someone like that. Especially when he never apologized. They were shot in cold blood for what? 100$ !! In many things in life, you donít get second chances, I think this is one of those things.

Just my 2 pennies.

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post #8 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-15-2005, 10:20 AM
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Re: Capital Punishment: Revenge or Justice?

[quote author=hate_romania link=topic=35690.msg511271#msg511271 date=1134637017]
[quote author=Olive Drab link=topic=35690.msg511246#msg511246 date=1134629951]
I am pro life so no go on the death penalty. I get more pleasure knowing someone is suffering every day in a 8x4 cell instead of taking the easy way out with death.
[/quote]

they dont have a easy way out
the time beetewn sentencing and excution in US is average 10.6 years
in this time the one spends 23h a day in a cell with a book
now how many time do you think he was thinking about his death ... alot...alot that more painfull then the execution itsellf

by the time of the execution there where some cases when the one still had the right to apeel they said fuck it and ask for the exectuion to be done faster....after 10 years locked and visializing theyr own death the real death is a good escape


and to answer to the question NO i don't agree with it
instead of kiling him - make him work
[/quote]Death is the easy way out as you just mentioned in your appear scenario. After 10 years in a prison this guy has had it and just wants to die. ITs always easier to quit(get a lethel injection) than finish the task at hand(life without parole)

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post #9 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-15-2005, 10:22 AM
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Re: Capital Punishment: Revenge or Justice?

I don't see a reason that American citizens should bear the burden of feeding, clothing and housing murderers. *Color me UNIMPRESSED that he's decided to repent and write childrens' books and denounce gang violence. *Backpeddling doesn't cut it when you've killed innocent people. *Call it 'eye for an eye' if you like, and maybe that's what it is. *Personally, I find it to be a more effective deterrant than providing a place for you to live, to lay around and read, eat and sleep for the rest of your life. *Prison doesn't scare anyone anymore. *They don't have to earn a living for themselves or deal with any of the responsibilities of a regular citizen. *This is where a lot of our tax money is going, and I think it's BS. *
post #10 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-15-2005, 10:26 AM
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Re: Capital Punishment: Revenge or Justice?

[quote author=Olive Drab link=topic=35690.msg511373#msg511373 date=1134656406]
Death is the easy way out as you just mentioned in your appear scenario.* After 10 years in a prison this guy has had it and just wants to die.* ITs always easier to quit(get a lethel injection) than finish the task at hand(life without parole)
[/quote]

OK we could leave them in jail and give them a better life than the homeless dude that didn't kill anybody and then what? After they have thought about what they've done, should we let them out into the public? No! Get rid of them before your tax dollars go to waste housing and protecting those without conscience.

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