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post #1 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-29-2005, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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7 words you can't say in kindergarten

funny AND political...most likely NSFW (language)

http://william.torkington.com/movies...716-7words.mov
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post #2 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-29-2005, 02:31 PM
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Re: 7 words you can't say in kindergarten

Hmmm....

I'll ignore the issue of this guy letting his kids have a pottymouth, but someone is going to have to bring me up to speed on what the current deal is with evolution in schools. I went to a Catholic high school, and evolution was taught in biology class. We learned all about Darwin, his adventures in the Galapagos Islands, his book (On the Origins of Species), some of the neat species he discovered, and most importantly, his theory of how those species came to be. They didn't criticize Darwin's theory at all. This is one of the reasons why I think evolution and Christianity need not conflict. In fact, evolution itself does not refute anything in the Bible (unless of course you're a fundamentalist who reads it the wrong way). Putting religion aside though, why *can't* you say evolution in Kindergarten? It's a valid scientific theory that has yet to be disproven. Am I missing something? Would I have learned about evolution if I had gone to a public school?


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post #3 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-29-2005, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 7 words you can't say in kindergarten

I believe the point of the video was to question the fundie christian demands in many public school districts (primarily in the south and midwest) to not teach evolution, or to teach it as a very shallow theory alongside of creationism.

I went to Catholic schools as well, and learned about evolution in all of my relevant science classes. In fact, when I think about it, I don't recall learning "creationism" even in any of my religion classes, at least not after I was older and out of the "Jesus loves the little children" ages.
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post #4 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-29-2005, 03:01 PM
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Re: 7 words you can't say in kindergarten

In Public School you get Evolution shoved down your throat.

Many of the people of the south and midwest and wherever else - more than just there - (not as much as the minority as the liberal news media portrays) would like the THEORIES to be taught equal and fair.

Evolution is taught as science and proven. It is not been disproved, nor proved - It is only a theory and it is called a theory in the bio book at school, but TAUGHT in school to be fact. Furthermore it is the Only theory taught. Creation does not get the same attention, as a matter of fact, it barely gets a mention.

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post #5 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-29-2005, 03:04 PM
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Re: 7 words you can't say in kindergarten

So based on what I've read in these posts, it seems that the Catholic school way of teaching is a much more fair and balanced approach than what is taught in public schools. I find that amazing since the media wants us to believe the opposite is true.

Glad my daughter is going to a Catholic school.


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post #6 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-29-2005, 03:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 7 words you can't say in kindergarten

[quote author=bestos link=topic=26307.msg357167#msg357167 date=1122663661]
In Public School you get Evolution shoved down your throat.

Many of the people of the south and midwest and wherever else - more than just there - (not as much as the minority as the liberal news media portrays) would like the THEORIES to be taught equal and fair.

Evolution is taught as science and proven. It is not been disproved, nor proved - It is only a theory and it is called a theory in the bio book at school, but TAUGHT in school to be fact. Furthermore it is the Only theory taught. Creation does not get the same attention, as a matter of fact, it barely gets a mention.
[/quote]

I think the problem is that Creationism bases itself on the belief in a "higher power" (in other words, some kind of religion) and that just doesn't fly in public schools today. My personal religious beliefs aside, I fail to see how teaching a theory (creationism) alongside other theories amounts to an establishment of religion, except to say that someone may not want their child exposed to any religious beliefs as taught by the state.

Personally, I don't think that discussions of religion and belief, especially in high school, can amount to establishment. But then again, there will always be the teacher that teaches one belief or the other as fact, and that tends to ruin it for everyone else.

[quote author=UnixGeezer link=topic=26307.msg357169#msg357169 date=1122663890]
So based on what I've read in these posts, it seems that the Catholic school way of teaching is a much more fair and balanced approach than what is taught in public schools. I find that amazing since the media wants us to believe the opposite is true.

Glad my daughter is going to a Catholic school.
[/quote]

For all of thier faults (and believe me, I experience quite a few) Catholic schools tend to provide a pretty solid education, especially in high school. I was exposed to more different belief systems and cultural philosophies than I can remember, without the limitations placed on public schools when it comes to talking about religion.

I fail to see how we can produce citizens capable of rational discussions on, and critical thinking about, religion and it's place in society when the government won't let them learn about it in school. But like I said, there's always some jerkass that manages to screw it up for the rest of us.
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post #7 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-29-2005, 03:21 PM
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Re: 7 words you can't say in kindergarten

"jerkass"


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post #8 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-30-2005, 03:37 AM
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Re: 7 words you can't say in kindergarten

Quote:
Originally Posted by "murph182"
For all of thier faults (and believe me, I experience quite a few) Catholic schools tend to provide a pretty solid education, especially in high school. I was exposed to more different belief systems and cultural philosophies than I can remember, without the limitations placed on public schools when it comes to talking about religion.
<off-topic>
I had a similar experience, actually. Even though I'm not Catholic, I went to Catholic schools since kindergarten. Religion was absolutely not discussed anywhere else but in "religion" class. All the other classes remained true to their title, completely unadulterated with religious theory (for lack of a better word). I honestly don't remember any of my science teachers bringing God into the class discussion. When we were learning about the theories of how the Earth came to be (big bang comes to mind), I can honestly say that we only discussed the big-bang theory -- openly, honestly, and without any religious influence. We had science textbooks written by real scientists, and we were taught the theories as they are written in the books. I for one feel that I received a very good and well-rounded education growing up, relatively speaking. The classes were small, so there was always a good teacher:student ratio. We got plenty of attention from the teachers, and they actually gave a damn about our performance. I hope I'm not speaking out of my ass, but I am honestly convinced that they were not just there to waste time and collect a paycheck. I hope my school wasn't the only one like that.

Many of the kids in my high school were either non-Catholic or non-religious, believe it or not. That made it quite interesting because they would always bring other rspectives into the discussions, often times with hillarious results. I remember once in theology class we got on the topic of masturbation because someone brought it up. An old nun ("sister&quot was teaching this class at the time. Of course, being a religion class, she brought her religious perspective into it, and said "well -- if you really must spill your seed, I would rather you have sex and share it with someone than waste it". Coming from an old nun, that made for a memorable moment. Her delivery of that line was perfect because she had a great (and funny) personality.

Were there any problems with the Catholic schools that I went to? Yeah, they were expensive! I think you get what you pay for, though. If not, all you need to do is complain, and things get done. There isn't a bureaucracy to fight through. It's entirely your own money that's funding your child's education, and they acknowledge that. They have to, for the sake of their own existance. One of the other main problems I remember is that some of our textbooks were pretty worn from use sometimes. They can't afford to buy new textbooks all the time, unfortunately. They were almost always very good textbooks, though (at least I think so). There were probably other little things, too, but I don't recall off hand. Oh, and there wasn't any free food in the caffeteria, ever.

I must say though, some of the girls in Catholic school had *NO* reservations whatsoever; especially as compared to the girls that went to the nearby public high school.
You wouldn't think it in a million years, but wow.... good times
</off-topic>

Quote:
Originally Posted by "murph182"
I fail to see how we can produce citizens capable of rational discussions on, and critical thinking about, religion and it's place in society when the government won't let them learn about it in school. But like I said, there's always some jerkass that manages to screw it up for the rest of us.
Ignorance is indeed a key proponent in all the misunderstanding and harsh sentiment that exist. Both religious and non-religious folk are guilty of this. By not allowing religion to be discussed, the non-religious are doing the same exact thing that the fundamentalists are doing with evolution -- trying to erase it from existance (within their own realm, at least). It's hypocritical for one group to say that the other isn't allowing certain ideas to be considered. Thankfully, in the school that I went to, we got the full monty. Nothing was left out. Had it been a fundamentalist Christian school like those that murph mentioned in the south and midwest, I would have missed out on so much science that I know and love (I'm sort of a geek, and an engineering major). Had I gone to a public school, I would have come out close-minded and angry at the world Just kidding ;-) I definately don't think my education would have been as well-rounded because of the censorship and lack of personal attention and genuine concern from the faculty. Censorship is a bad thing in education, I think. "Fundie" schools and public schools are both guilty as I see it.


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post #9 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-30-2005, 05:45 AM
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Re: 7 words you can't say in kindergarten

That 10 second clip says a lot about modern ideology.

That saddest part for me, is that it supposes that the education system lacks forethought.

Knowledge is power.* Always has been, probably always will be.

I find it highly ironic that the educational building blocks that our children will use for their adult lives end up being the exclusive product of the political will of the region in which we live.* If the local view isn't the the one you want your kid to learn, you pretty much have to move.

We're still researching which school our little tot will end up in, catholic or public.

Quote from: murph182
I fail to see how we can produce citizens capable of rational discussions on, and critical thinking about, religion and it's place in society when the government won't let them learn about it in school. But like I said, there's always some jerkass that manages to screw it up for the rest of us.

That right there, is why we still need parents who strive to be parents. The government was never meant to be a third parent. A large part of education still begins and ends at home.

I do not exist merely to exist.
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post #10 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-30-2005, 07:31 PM
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Re: 7 words you can't say in kindergarten

[quote author=bestos link=topic=26307.msg357167#msg357167 date=1122663661]
In Public School you get Evolution shoved down your throat.

Many of the people of the south and midwest and wherever else - more than just there - (not as much as the minority as the liberal news media portrays) would like the THEORIES to be taught equal and fair.

Evolution is taught as science and proven. It is not been disproved, nor proved - It is only a theory and it is called a theory in the bio book at school, but TAUGHT in school to be fact. Furthermore it is the Only theory taught. Creation does not get the same attention, as a matter of fact, it barely gets a mention.
[/quote]

You don't seem to understand what a theory is. A theory is basically an explanation for a series of facts. The theory is tested against the known facts to see if it consistent with observed results. That's the way the scientific process works. By your argument, the Theory of Relativity should not be taught, nor should the Theory of Gravity. Sneering that evolution is "just a theory" sums up the problem with the whole Creationist movement: they are attempting to define science without having a clue as to what science involves.

The mass of evidence continues to support that evolution takes place. But don't confuse evidence with explanation. Facts are evidence that support or conflict with theory. Theories are the very basis of science. To say don't teach theories is basically saying don't teach science.


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